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Éditions John Doe • Afficher le sujet - Démons


Démons

Tough ain't enough: Le forum des vrais hommes !

Démons

Mon français est fort mauvais (je le sais lire seluement), et j'écris donc en anglais. J'éspère c'est ok; sinon, j'écrirais en français dans la pauvre façon je puis.

Hello everyone here (or "haw beaus", if that sounds tougher).
First of all: I loved this game very much and this forum is a very useful tool; having the authors here too (it seemed to me we have them, at least) is pleasently unexpected.

As I said, I loved the game very much; the only niggle I could do, like others did, is that the "supernatural" part isn't nothing detailed with the precision I appreciated in the "city sight-seeing" part (of course it could have been a choice, leaving more freedom to the VOs, but a VO can always modify the setting as he likes; no one is forced to have Constance as the ghetto boss, but it's great help knowing it anyway). I could understand this little fault is amended in the booklet published together with the VO's screen; but I live in Italy and that expansion isn't published here yet.

So I'll step over my curiosity about how invocations are made, etc., and focus on one question in particular: demons.

I mean the Dedalus/Maelstrom ones, and not the possedés - I mean demons who still live in the outer world with their masters Asservis, and occasionally embody in this world to work for their masters, or for themselves.
Here are my main questions:

1) How do they embody? I mean, in the same way the possedés did? Can they feel pleasure and pain the same way the possedés do, or in a lesser degree? This latter chance could explain why they still envy the possedés despite the possibility of taking possess of a human body, that they have too (but, in this case, without the same possibility of feeling corporeal life's pleasures), and could make them more badass, 'cause they wouldn't feel pain that much. And then: they take possess of a body. But can they leave it whenever they like to? And if so, what about that body? Is it still alive, like waking up after some sleep? I guess so, but I'm not sure.

2) A demon is qualified in the manual by its mojo and humanity, but Blind, in the scenario presented at the end of the book, being an embodied demon is qualified by the normal png attributes: body, brain and social scores (300, 300, 300), plus modifiers and status.
So: if some medium invokes a demon, and the demon answers the call and embodies himself in someone's body, which skills will it have? How will they relate to his mojo/humanity scores? Most of the demons presented in the Maelstrom chapter have mojo scores around 100, but I'd guess they wouldn't be cheap enemies if they came to Heaven Harbor for some affairs. Somewhere in the book it's written a demon will receive the scores that the body he enters in already has, but this way, invoking a demon would be absolutely useless in most of cases (unless he could take possess of some G.I. Joe walking around); and this way, who could Blind be entered in, considering his stunning scores? (By the way it would be interesting to know if a demon embodies randomly in the first man he finds around, or if he has some sort of a safe deposit box of ready-to-use bodies). Last question: there are some demons with very high mojo scores. Once they embodied, how's that score useful considering that they don't like to use "supernatural" powers in our world?

I hope I explained my questions in a good way, but if I wasn't clear, let me know.
Thanks to anyone who will answer.
(As I said, I can't write French but I can read it. So, if you don't like to write me back in English, I'll read you anyway...somehow :) ).
Keyser Soze
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Messagepar Keyser Soze » 11 Mai 2010, 14:14

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Re: Démons

First of all: Hi!

Now I will deliver my opinion to you, and as an opinion it's not the truth, it's my truth.

1/Maelstrom demons embodies in the same way the possédés do, they also have feelings and pain or pleasure. Those things are so attractive to them, that some of them, that haven't a great power nor influences, decided to stay in the physical world, I imagine that breaches between worlds allow them to stay definetly. Before the Ashes Day they couldn't stay very long, they wer some sort of Borrowers.
Maelstrom demons, you will see in the screen booklet, have some body / human , they like to use. They can leave the body whenever they want to or when the body is kill they just go back in the maelstrom (may be you can evaluate their abilities to rejoin the maelstrom with their mojo, may be it can be an indicator of the time they could spent in a corpse before turning back in maelstrom). Each demon have is little habit, some kill the corpse that serve them other like to use it regularly. And Of course the poor possessed human as no idea of what he is doing during the possesion: Total Amnesia. "Why are my hands mess with blood, What I m doing here? I just remember going to bed!"

2/ Demon doesn't need a corpse to appear. they could materialize them selves.
It's just more useful for interaction. If you ask for a murder, maybe the demon will send an assassin to you, this assassin could embodies the corpse he needs to do the job surely he will not take some blind nor myopathe ones, except in the case where it could allow him to approch his victim.

And you could invoke a demon and see nothing at all, but someones knocking at your doors, showing is card: Mr Clay Service.

For the Mojo score, in embodies demons I like to consider it as a reserve of power, like a booster for some abilities. (but it's only my vision)

I apologize for my rusty english but i hope i have helped you at least.

;)
Pallas
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Messagepar Pallas » 12 Mai 2010, 11:30

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Re: Démons

You can also read this section Where we have already debate about Demons, Cornus and invocation.
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=455
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Messagepar Pallas » 12 Mai 2010, 11:59

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Re: Démons

Thank you very much for your help.
As for the thread about Cornus, I had already had it and found it most interesting - demons ringing the bell with their business cards, possédés playing the saxophone or living large with tailor-made suits, top models and cocaine...that's all very inspiring.

I have just one question left, which is, besides, the main one when it comes to actual playing. It was the second one I asked; I'll try to rephrase it.

On the Hellywood rulebook, in the Maelstrom section, each one of the presented demons is qualified by its mojo and its humanity scores.
But when a demon comes to our world, and is thus used as a PNJ, the VO needs to know its "normal" attributes: body, brain, and social scores, plus modifiers and status.
This happens in the scenario presented at the end of the book: the VO knows the attributes of Blind, Mr Clay's right-hand demon. By the way, these attributes are very high: I don't remember about modifiers and status, but the main three scores were 300, 300, 300.
So: how do I (as VO) choose the attributes of a demon, when he embodies in our world? I normally know only about his mojo and humanity, and the rulebook does not describe how to "translate" them into "normal" attributes. Should I pick up the attributes of the body he take possess of? But Blind's attributes are way too strong than those of a common person, so we can't presume they were the attributes of his mortal guest. And what about when a demon just materializes himself, using a body he creates for the occasion, without taking possess of a pre-existing corpse?

I know there probably isn't an "official" answer (unless M. Gharbi answers himself 8) ) but I'm curious about how would you do, or maybe already did, in your scenarios.

Sorry if I bother, but I will probably have to use a demon quite soon and I'd like to know how to play it.

Thanks again and good afternoon to you all.
Keyser Soze
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Messagepar Keyser Soze » 12 Mai 2010, 14:56

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Re: Démons

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Messagepar Pallas » 12 Mai 2010, 16:38

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Re: Démons

Hi there,

it's nice to see people from outside France here 8)

A quick note to complete what Pallas has already explained. In my opinion the demon in rulebook scenario, being Mr Clay's right hand, is extremely powerful. I don't think he should be taken as a template for our creations. For instance, I don't think that all demons can travel from body to body as easily as he does. They can manifest themselves, manipulate their appearence, and sometimes reality (depending on their Mojo score), but not necessarily steal bodies. Anyway, I really think that demons have been conceived as tools in the gamemaster's hands. They are no general rules applying to all demons. Each demon can have his own powers and faculties, therefore leaving a lot of room to surprise players.

I hope this helps, maybe I'm too general...
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Messagepar Humphrey B » 12 Mai 2010, 18:33

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Re: Démons

Well, thanks a lot to both of you!

In general, the idea of using Mojo as a reserve from which to draw points, and using these points to improve the body and (if any is left) to modify, potentially, the dice's results --- well, this sounds very interesting.
Maybe I'll try to write down a quick scheme about how many Mojo points are needed to do this or that, so that I cannot lose control of the situation while gaming, nor let myself be too cruel with the PJs...

This said, I'm still curious about your playing style. Did you already manage to use demons? If so, how did you behave?
I noticed (and I like it very much, and so do my fellow players) Hellywood is quite a tough game to survive in: any fight, potentially, could let you drop dead, and any boxeur PNJ is enough to hurt very badly (and I mean VERY badly) one, even two PJs.
I'm a bit afraid a demon could be too much :roll:
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Messagepar Keyser Soze » 12 Mai 2010, 21:35

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Re: Démons

Watch out guys, I watch even if it is in English!
just for the form...

and welcome among us Keyser Soze

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Messagepar Infirmier John » 12 Mai 2010, 22:54

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Re: Démons

Keyser Soze
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Messagepar Keyser Soze » 13 Mai 2010, 11:37

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Re: Démons

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Messagepar Humphrey B » 13 Mai 2010, 13:11

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Re: Démons

Hi english-speaking friend and thanks for your interest in our book

The main thing I have to say concerning the maelstrom and the fantastic side of Hellywood is : don't try to rationnalise it. As a VO, if your fellow players can predict the behavior of a demon and begin to know them as well as an entomologist knows ants, then you've missed the point.

So feel free to do whatever you want with them, as we did. You want a demon that embodies humans and make them stronger (like Blind) then go with it. You want a demon that is merely a feeling, a whispering in the tough guy's head, it's just as good. Depending on the way you see Hellywood (realistic as Ellroy's novels or bigger-than-life as Frank Miller's Sin City) and the needs of your scenario, you'll create and use demons very differently. And we officially encourage this.

What is the maelstrom in our mind ? What are the demons ? Well, they are many things, but first of all they are a creative tool, a way to make stories go wild (and weird).

That being said, a word about this mojo/humanity stuff. Mojo is a link to the maelstrom : the higher it is, the more the demon can alter reality (and ultimatly, destroy it if he's not careful enough) The humanity score, on the other end, reflects its ability to act like a human being. In my mind, Blind for example has a strong Humanity score but a low Mojo : he is able to easily go in our world and interact (and by "interact" i mean "slaughter") human beings but he's rarely seen showing obvious supernatural powers.

Raphaël.
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Messagepar Seagull » 13 Mai 2010, 14:12

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Re: Démons

Hi to you, and thanks for your excellent job. Again, it's a real pleasure to talk with the creators of the game themselves.
Your suggestions are very good too, and the demon "as a creative tool" - from killing machine to shadow or whisper in one's head - can be something very nice. Maybe a little harder for the VO, without boundaries and guidelines to make the job easier, but surely stimulating.
I understand better now what you meant talking about mojo and humanity. Seems to me this way it can work well, although it'll probably be important to care not to create some sort of dichotomy of the d&d "warrior vs wizard" kind.
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Messagepar Keyser Soze » 13 Mai 2010, 15:12

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Re: Démons

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Messagepar Keyser Soze » 13 Mai 2010, 19:12

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